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June 22, 2008

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Fredrik Fälth

I was under the impression that this book was only a collection of essays. I've never read "Introduction to Animal right" either but from what I've heard, that book has a chapter devoted to answering the many "objections" from omni's we vegans hear so often. Such a chapter seems very useful to me. Is something similar included in "Animals as Persons"? Thanks!

Roger

Gary Francione is currently discussing themes from Animals As Persons on Vegan Freaks Radio )part 2 is due in a couple of days: http://veganfreakradio.com/index.php?id=141

Dan

I'll admit that I haven't read this book yet, but given Gary Francione's (very) accessible writing style and his emphasis on keeping his theory and writing simple (it’s about as clear and straightforward as such things get), and given that Mary’s opinion is that it is *more readable* than Francione’s other two very readable books, the fact that it is a “scholarly book” should not scare anyone who can read at any high school grade level. I wouldn’t recommend Heidegger’s Being and Time to the average person, but I’d highly recommend Animals as Persons to the average person.

Mary Martin

Fredrik,
There's not really a chapter addressing objections specific to omnis, but there is much addressing of objections of all kinds, from various directions (including other scholars), throughout the essays.

Thanks Roger!

Dan,
I mention the book being more readable because I had a tough time getting through the first two books and didn't experience them as simple and straightforward. I was a vegan at the time and didn't believe animals were ours to use, but I was not an abolitionist as Francione would define it. Most of this book is much easier to get through, though, in my opinion.

Furthermore, the average person in my world won't care to read a book about welfare versus abolition (they likely don't even know what that is), and I don't use property rights as my first line of defense (I go with what's most important to the person in front of me). In my vegan education of Joe and Josie Q. Public, this wouldn't be my first choice as there are simply too many compromises. It's far beyond a high school reading level, in both vocabulary and sophistication of writing style.

I might refer someone who belongs to PeTA to sections of the book, and I'd certainly recommend vegans read it.

Dan

It’s true that the average person in my world wouldn’t even care to read a pamphlet about animal welfare, much less a book about AR, but if I was to recommend one, it would probably be Intro to AR by Francione or Animals as Persons. Both books were, by far, the clearest, most straightforward books on AR I had ever read, which is why I promote Francione’s work so much.

About the reading level, perhaps I’m used to reading dense and difficult material, including complicated legal contracts and dry philosophical works, but I’m amazed that anyone would find Francione’s work difficult to get through. Personally, I found Tom Regan’s The Case for AR to be dense and tedious and Francione’s books like a short stroll in the park.

Oh well, such is opinion on such things – extremely subjective.

Mary Martin

Dan,

And let's not forget the obvious--you're smarter than I am! Regan was no day at the beach for me.

Dan

Oh c’mon, Mary, I appreciate the compliment, even if undeserved, but one of the reasons I think Francione’s work is so accessible is because it’s easier to understand than most other scholarly books in moral philosophy and philosophy in general. I think that is one of Francione’s strongest points: he is able to put what might normally be difficult to articulate in much more straightforward and economical language than can most scholars (in both writing and speech). But I’m more than happy to agree to disagree on the difficulty or ease of his books. I say to those who haven’t read Francione’s books: read them and decide for yourself!

I’m with you on Regan. It wasn’t so much Regan’s wording, etc, that made The Case for AR a little difficult to get through, but his attention to detail, his thoroughness (including a survey of Western ethical thought), and the resulting length of the book. That said, it makes a good “intro to Western ethics” as well as a good case for AR, if you can endure. :-) Empty Cages is a good Regan book for the "average person."

Alex C.

I think that Gary's interviews are more accessible than his writing, and I usually refer people to these two excellent interviews:

http://www.animalvoices.ca/shows/gary_francione

http://www.animalvoices.ca/shows/gary_francione2

Even people who don't have a particular interest in AR stuff have told me that they found the interviews to be interesting and thought-provoking. Gary lays out the groundwork for abolition using concrete examples from welfarist "reforms". Really good stuff, and not at all dry.

Ruth Eisenbud

Animals are designated as property in the west, because the Judeo.Christian Tradition set a foundation which allows for their harm and exploitation. Their lives do not have inherent worth, but rather are valued in how they may benefit humans. This hierarchical scheme of allowable abuse goes by the name of Dominion/Stewardship

In India where the religions teach that non-violence for ALL beings: Ahimsa, the laws reflect this premise and animals are considered living beings. In fact there is a 'Duty of Compassion for Animals' written into the Indian Constitution.

It will not be possible to change the laws in the west until we address the underlying flawed message of compassion delivered by our mainstream religions.

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