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August 25, 2008

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Roger

Given what you say in your subsequent piece, Mary, I did actually go to bed thinking about this “thought provoker” of a rant. We are getting lots of media coverage in Ireland of the US Dem convention – the Irish take as much notice if not more of the elections in the United Steaks of America as they do of those in the “UK”. So appropriately enough, I thought I might “flip-flop” over the Best piece.

There is a lot to agree with, of course, and Bob Torres covers similar grounds in his Making a Killing when it comes to animal advocates being industry consultants.

I suppose the term ‘peacenik’ is to be taken negatively, although by some of the definitions I saw when I rechecked a few minutes ago, I’d say Francione would agree that he is one. A related point is that I guess we all think that a peaceful world would be good. Now the hard bit: how to get one. Best goes for the notion of going to war for peace which many people assume just leads to more war. ‘Be the change...’ is the answer to that. However, with the boot on the other foot, I was directed to a TV programme just last night on a national channel in Ireland. It was about men (mainly) who go dog fighting and engage in bare knuckle fighting. Given the attitudes expressed – and excuse the elitism, the educational attainment levels on show – I’m not sure how far the notion of “vegan education” is gonna play with such violent people.

Since Steve Best talks a lot about animal rights, I was interesting in this section of his rant: ‘Ironically, as Winograd documents, Pacelle -- like a dry and detached doctor who tends to patients mechanically -- has “no hand-on fondness for animals” and Pacelle himself confesses that “To this day I don't feel bonded to any non-human animal.”[10] Given that enormous compassion and empathy drive most animal activists, one has to ask: Why is Pacelle in the animal protection field? Why did he choose this career? What possible motivations propel him from day-to-day? If it’s not a love for animals, could it be instead a love for money, glory, fame, and power? Could it be that his robotic lack of empathy for animals explains why his organization perfunctorily kills so many animals and spends more time on constructing paltry rationalizations rather than building viable alternatives?’

What about, if not love, some commitment to principles of justice? Haven’t we all recognised that ‘loving’ and ‘respecting the rights of’... are not the same? I’m not suggesting that Pacelle feels either thing but it is interesting that Best ignores those possibilities to explain someone not driven by emotion. Most people seem to think a mix is the best – emotion and rationality – that’s what Regan and Francione argue.

I liked the Marcuse bit – his work was used to attack Lee Hall. I’ll be teaching a little Marcuse in a few weeks. I’d also recommend his An Essay on Liberation from 1969, and it is challenging in the sense that Best means here.

Do we think that the HSUS are ‘perverting the cause of animal rights’. You see, and sometimes I feel I have some issue with abolitionism here, I don’t think animal welfarists can do that unless that are mistaken for animal rights. I think it is the animal rights countermovement(s) that call HSUS ‘animal rights’ rather than the HSUS itself. P-TA is much worse because they seem to actively and deliberately set out to redefine ‘animal rights’ to the extent that it has no connection to animal rights theory.

Back to Francione. It was a cheap shot given that the rant is littered with “Like PETA, the HSUS...” Suddenly Best is talking about Francione throwing the HSUS and P-TA “into the same boiling pot”. True, Francione does do this – just like Steve Best does.

Best says that the HSUS is a ‘regressive’ force – that just means it is an animal welfare group as far as I can see.

RY

Lyda

Mary, I did read this but needed a lot of time to think it over.

I think what stands out to me first of all is the parts about killing animals needlessly in a movement that argues for compassion.

Maybe this is what is rubbing me the wrong way about so many "big groups." If they say to everyone out there "shame on you, you should not kill animals" but they turn around and kill animals and say "we have to do this, don't worry, we're experts." Then of course all the vivisectors and cattle ranchers say "we're experts too and we HAVE to do this. It's necessary."

Same thing for HSUS to conduct an investigation that maybe some say it was not legal to put cameras where they did or they got access by lying. So they say "we had to do this, even if it wasn't completely legal." But if another activist does something illegal they will condemn it and say nobody should break the law in the animal movement. I am not talking about anything violent though, to me that is another issue, but the activists locked up for running a website and HSUS thinks that is just fine.

So they will also say if we criticize we are being devisive or infighting, but if they criticize other activists that is ok. They are the experts, they get to condemn others and criticize if they want to.

I am bothered by the comparisons to Nazis. I do understand how many animals are dying, and that is very serious. However I'm not sure many people understand references to Nazis and maybe they stop reading then. Maybe Best should have left that out.

Roger is wondering why HSUS keeps getting lumped in with "Animal Rights" and I think Best does address this when he speaks of HSUS pursuing and hiring activists who have been very outspoken, creative, even radical. They were well known in animal rights and the names still carry some weight. Before you heard all the time about them publishing something really thought provoking or organizing a really creative action. Then suddenly you only hear about them signing polished double-speak letters on HSUS letterhead. They make news for their salaries, not for organizing a protest. And they still get awards and speaking opportunities and all this time they do more to promote giving money to HSUS than to help animals. They had energy and talents and are those are harnessed to work for the betterment of the corporation, not to help animals. But the names are still seen as meaning "animal rights." That's where the water gets really muddy.

Dan

Regarding activists who are in prison, I fully support their release because they are victims of unjust laws which serve to protect violence and tyranny against animals. That said, I don’t think serious property damage, etc. is effective at this time in history for changing society’s moral paradigm regarding animals and I therefore do not support acts or threats of property damage, etc. (I would support it if I thought it was effective at shifting society’s moral compass; I don’t have a problem with such acts in principle given the severity of animal exploitation in our society). It would be wonderful if Kevin Jonas was “doing vegan education” right now instead of “doing time.”

The only other thing I have to say is that the single-issue organization Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, at over $2 million in revenues in 2006, may be “small” in relation to mammoths like HSUS and PETA, but it is huge compared to abolitionist groups like Peaceful Prairie Sanctuary.

Further, while Sea Shepherd goes out on wild-ass single-issue campaigns at sea costing over a million dollars per year which do nothing to promote vegan living or abolition, Peaceful Prairie is using its comparatively tiny resources to do the most effective work we can be doing now: vegan education.

Until groups and individuals get away from single-issue bullshit and start doing much more vegan education, WE WILL GO ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE.

bunny

Did General Best miss out on playing army when he was a kid? Or did his teenage years fly by so fast that he is only now getting around to dealing with rebellious angst and self identity?

After reading numerous articles from his website, and watching the videos from his Myspace profile (!ha ha!), I have one question to ask...

In the current political climate, does General Best *really* think that those Americans who are sufficiently intelligent and open-minded enough to understand and be open to becoming vegan are really interested in hearing about WAR?! I think anyone with enough sense of what is going on in the world has had ENOUGH of war. They want OUT of war...any kind of war. People are crying for peace. Which, in my mind, is the whole underlying principle of veganism. Peace...

But, you know, screw Gandhi...he was apparently an idiot with nothing of value to say. Never made a dent, that guy. Better to wear ominous dark masks and duck and cover in the night like super vegan spidey ninjas. (There's a comic book in there somewhere!)

As an aside, even significant current socio-political movements that are offering alternative ways to capitalism (and the social injustices inherent in this system) seem to be intelligent, realistic, and mature enough to know that brute force is not going to change the system...

Elaine Vigneault

Best's criticism was very thorough and interesting. I'm sure it's valid. However, the suggestion that someone must love animals in order to work as their advocate doesn't sit well with me. I think it's quite possible for someone to have "no fondness for animals" and still be an honest and effective advocate for them. Unlikely, perhaps. But definitely possible. And indeed, this detachment is sort of a goal of abolition. As my sister says, "There's nothing wrong with not having a pet. There's something very wrong with abandoning or killing a pet."

My dog has made me a better person and a better animal advocate. I am incredibly fond of him. But it's not my fondness of him that's helped me change; it's his dependency on me. Knowing that he relies on me for so much - food, water, attention, mental stimulation, safety, hygiene, comfort, etc. - made me realize how much animals, particularly those bred for human use, need humans as guardians and as advocates. Knowing that he wants to please so much that he'll act in ways that don't represent his own interest made/makes me get honest with myself and try to separate what I want from what's best for him. That's made me a better person and a better animal advocate. The knowledge, more than the love, of Floyd deepened my commitment to veganism and animal advocacy. Though I love him more than I can describe, it's not the love that makes and keeps me in the AR movement.

davedrum

After also looking at General Best's myspace page full of hate filled propaganda, I thought I'd add my own views on what I read and saw on there. I feel a bit saddened by the thought of the "impressionable youth" that have already found and will find their way to his words and the "solutions" he offers. His misguided words may one day ruin the life/lives of one or many that could have been put onto a better path. His advocating violence will most likely lead some to follow the WRONG leader. You could see by the comments there that there are already some that are taking his bait and following the macho bullshit he advocates. I hate to even think of someone that is learning about AR for the first time coming across his faulty and dangerous philosophies. These are impressionable youth and young adults that stand to lose their own freedoms and foul up their lives to fight that "War" he so wants to wage.

Did anyone see the video on his myspace page where he shows a group of kids/college students going into World Com with bullhorns and taking action against innocent victims? He praises SHAC for going after companies that really have nothing to do with animal testing. What was their crime? They provided internet and communication services to Huntingdon Life Sciences. Of COURSE I do not approve in any way...even slightly the business that HLS was providing. Yet going after World Com?! Why not target the sneaker manufacturer of one of their employees because they jog to work? How about going after the auto manufacturer that one of the upper management drives? Hey...while they're at it...how about the postal service or Fed Ex for delivering their mail? These are truly INNOCENT victims. He advocates the use of terror to try to get people to submit to his own beliefs. How is that different than the Taliban attacking the innocent victims on 9/11? What did those people have to do with the US Governments involvement in crap around the world?

Violence is never the answer. History is kind to those that try or strive to bring about "change" through peaceful methods. Look at Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. Mother Theresa. History is never favorable when it looks back at the lives of those that advocated violence, called for and started wars, committed preemptive strikes" upon others. What General Bush (errrr...I mean Best) is calling for is no different in my eyes that what all other failed leaders have done... spoke of creating "PEACE" through violence.

I love how he says that SHAC is NOT violent towards other "beings"...that they only cause property damage (on his MS page).

Here are some "FACTS" on the violence they have committed to other living "beings" by SHAC:

"Brian Cass was getting out of his car at his home in England on a clear night in February 2001, when he was surrounded by three masked men wielding heavy, wooden objects. Some news reports describe them as baseball bats, others as pickaxe handles. Whatever their weapons, they started to beat the 53-year-old Cass on the head and body without any warning. In a few short moments, his hair and jacket were soaked through with blood.
A neighbor tried to intervene and help him, but was immobilized by a spray of CS gas, in the face, by one of Cass’s attackers. Months later, when the lead attacker was arrested and sentenced to three years in prison, Cass’ marketing director Andrew Gay was attacked on his doorstep with a chemical spray to his eyes, leaving him temporarily blinded and writhing in pain in front of his wife and young daughter."

"British thirty-somethings Paul and Heather Saunders were entertaining friends one autumn night in 2000 when they heard two loud crashes from the direction of their front patio. They ran toward the noise to find that two large chunks of dried cement had been thrown through their plate-glass patio doors. The two vandals they saw running away paused for a moment, to pour paint stripper all over their guests’ car.

Nearly five months later, a strange package was delivered to the house, addressed to Heather. The bomb squad in their town found enough explosives inside to kill anyone who might have dared to open it."

These are instances that were done by SHAC... that in one case DID hurt an individual, in another case...clearly some could have been killed or severely injured.

To think that this "excuse of a man" is onto something "good" for the animals is scary indeed. Many of us were lead here by a rage within our own hearts as we learned more and more about the abuses of all things living. I do understand the pain and the rage we all sometimes feel for this world we live upon and those that don't "get it" yet. I know that finding "peace" within myself by becoming vegan was a step in the right direction. Yet I as well...still know that the constant blaming of the failed practices of Welfarist groups is not winning anyone over either. Those that yell the loudest (the abolitionists) yet put no solutions on the table are not winning any hearts or minds. They are so close...yet so far away... WHY? Because they'll never spread their "GOOD" message by the constant drum beat of blame, blame, blame. Nobody needs to hear theories over and over and over about what all the "others" are doing wrong. What they need to hear...is HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!

-dave

bunny

After reading Davedrum's post, I've had a change of heart!

I want to become a soldier of General Best's army! Where do I sign up?! Is there a recruiting office downtown? Will I have to attend boot camp before I can see action on the front lines? ("Drop down and give me FIFTY! You lousy welfarist son of a bitch! I'll have you hauling a hundred gestation cages before I'm done with you, Nayonaise!")

Will they provide me with the necessary weapons and munitions to carry out my missions? (You know, the standard armament for war...crow bars, bic lighters, lock picks, spray paint, bats, rocks, bricks, flashlights...oh, and let's not forget dried cement.)

I have a ski mask...does that give me a head start? It's pink and lined with fake fur. Is that acceptable?

If this militia insists on calling itself ALF though, I really feel the ALFists should wear REAL Alf masks in honor of their leader...http://www.costumesgalore.net/alf_06010.html

I'm ready and willing to become a super vegan spidey ninja! I want to be a hero and "free" mink that will be replaced inevitably with more mink -- that way, the cycle of war will never end! What fun! Just like the war for oil!

Anyway, it's really General Best's compassion and empathy for children that really won me over. As is demonstrated in his following quote (taken from an article posted on his web site http://www.drstevebest.org/Essays/ThinkingPluralistically.htm ):

"The critique of SHAC’s home demonstration tactic as illegitimate because it is potentially harmful to children misses the mark. It is not SHAC’s intention to cause any psychological trauma to children, but if SHAC is engaged in a just war, this trauma can be viewed as unfortunate but unavoidable. SHAC critics favor human interests over animal interests in a speciesist way. The harm children might suffer from a home demo is inconsequential compared to what animals suffer in HLS labs and can be assuaged through conversation. SHAC critics privilege the relative comfort of bourgeois children over the absolute misery of animals, psychological discomfort over physical agony, and potential harm over certain suffering and death. If one used a utilitarian calculus in this “your child or your dog?” situation, surely the scale would tip heavily toward the animals."

children = acceptable and unavoidable collateral damage

I ain't no speciestistististist. To hell with bourgeois children. They are almost as bad as those dang Iraqis who somehow always manage to annoyingly get in the way of U.S. "precision" bombs! It's almost like they *want* to become collateral damage. Sheesh. It's just plain frustratin'. Don't they know to get out of the way?!

Can I man a humvee if I join?

davedrum

I think it's a great idea that you're deciding to join up to stand along side with these other brave men and women (many of whom are not even old enough to buy beer) and play "follow the leader" with them. A better leader one could not find.

One thing I was thinking was that the General needs his own uniform. The one you picked was great because we all get to hide our faces like true warriors.

When the General is making speeches and wants to show himself I think this would be a good one (it's a very vegan uniform):

http://www.prankplace.com/costumes1.asp?id=king

and for the very rare times when he decides to join us into battle he'll need something a bit different to show what a macho man he be:

http://tinyurl.com/5c7g9d

(this way he can hide his face just like all of true heroes in this "War OF Terror!".... I mean to say: this "War ON Terror" (sorry I think I stole that from the Borat Movie)....

As far as driving the Humvee goes, of course you can. Just remember when we run out of gas (which will be inevitable because we'll be very broke after outfitting everyone with their uniforms)... we'll have to get out and push the Humvee. We'll first we can get those damn little bourgeois children to push...when they are ready to drop dead... we'll have to make the best of it.

This is such a great idea. I wonder where he'll be stationing us first. I know that since his cause is broke, I'll have to set aside a large stash of cash for bail money. I'm not sure how fast I can run in an ALF costume. ;-)

Mary Martin

I find this tasteless and embarrassing.

Bunny, you've ridiculed abolitionists for "blasting" welfarists for "extremely harsh language and accusatory," (8/19/08) and said you didn't learn anything from my legitimate criticism of the words versus the actions of others (8/1/08).

This is very telling.

And Dave, seriously, must you too participate?

Everyone: I post on Steve Best because I think he makes connections many people don't make and has tirelessly attempted to educate his students and his readers all over the world about the history of social justice movements. I've read a lot of his material and he doesn't advocate violence except as a last resort, and yes, he does think this is a war.

How is this NOT a war? Okay, that's another post in itself.

I'm shocked that my blog has taken this turn with all the ad hominem attacks and disrespect of someone who has spent most of his life working for animals, and suffered tremendously personally and professionally because of his work. You disagree with his support of direct action and with his acceptance of the possibility of and effects of violence, and that's fine. Disagree with him all day long. But just say that and say why, like a grown up.

I'm trying to address a controversial topic and a controversial person (who is non-dogmatic, which is rare) and my intention is simply to get people out of their comfort zones, if only for a moment, and have a serious conversation.

I feel mighty morally superior and perfectly consistent and non-hypocritical when I say that I would never accept anything but complete nonviolence as the answer. But I cannot ignore how this country was founded, how slaves were emancipated, and how women got the right to vote.

Why not respect my intention of serious discourse by addressing the topic in a way similar to how it was posed? Forget about Steve Best. This is disrespectful to ME.

davedrum

Mary,
I DO in fact believe that I addressed this post yesterday with all intentions of being open and honest. The points I brought up with regards to his myspace page and the "danger" I truly believe that he poses to others is something I feel passionate and strongly about. His way...the way he wants to conduct this "war" is dangerous to those that are the targets and those that end up stupidly and blindly involved. Yes there are animals being harmed in horrible ways every single day. The way he wants to go about and bring "change" to this is by encouraging MORE violence and terror. I know in ALL that I personally stand for and believe, that he is wrong. I'll never subscribe to his beliefs, I will always feel I am the better man for doing things the way I do. it's just sad that he's corrupting minds, not teaching them. You don't end violence, cruelty, and horror, by creating your own violence, cruelty, and horror. I'll always be a loud and vocal opponent of both he, and ALL like him that resort to the draconian tactics he advocates to bring "peace"... as I said yesterday... his way of creating "peace" and harmony parallels those of another faulty leader...Bubble Boy Bush and the "change" he has brought to the Iraqi people and the middle east in general...

Dan

Thank you for that comment, Mary.

I don't agree with everything Steve Best says or promotes, but I have a lot of respect for him as an activist and a philosopher. He dares to say some very unpopular things which would be greatly admired in a non-speciesist culture and takes personal and professional risks most people are far too timid to take. My hat is off to Steve Best, despite some disagreements with his work in the direction that I think ARAs should take at this time in history.

Joe

Steve Best is a thinker in a movement of followers. He's developed his own style and philosophy by blending the thoughts, actions and theories of other original thinkers and then building a body of work that is based on the objective observance of real history, not the fantastic romanticized history of those who believe only in one tactic over another.

Let's face it - you can't build a house with only a hammer. You need plans, hardware, and every tool in your toolbox if it's going to last. Those who believe that MLK would have been as effective as he was without Malcolm X or the Black Panthers, and those who believe that Gandhi accomplished all he did without violent revolutionary activity behind him (though not endorsed by him) are not students of objective reality. Even Gandhi said that violence was preferable to inaction or capitulation to the enemy.

As for the "what will become of the youth" argument, that's one that always makes me laugh. The youth can make up their own minds far better than we give them credit for. Let them digest the information from all sides and decide for themselves.

Unfortunately, you don't have to think to be involved in the animal advocacy movement in any way. If a coherent and cogent thought process was required for "membership," HSUS and PeTA would have a lot fewer followers. But just maybe the animals would be better off for it. There would be more thinkers and do-ers, and fewer people whose most profound thoughts are "yeah - whatever X organization says, I support."

Sure, non-violence is preferable to violence in every case. You'll get no argument from me over that one. But if you're going to teach a class of American students, you can't give them text books written in Mandarin and expect them to understand a word you're trying to teach them. Slaughterhouse operators, fur farmers, vivisectors, etc. operate from a world of obscene violence as a routine way to do business. They are the most extreme terrorists to ever poison the earth with their putrid existence. To expect them to understand anything but their own language is naive.


kelly g.

Mary - Just delurking to thank you for posting this. I was horrified when I read about HSUS's "bounty" on Green is the Red. The larger enviro and animal advocacy groups have never sat well with me - seems like they spend the bulk of their donations raising more donations, and the HSUS's conduct in the wake of Katrina really drove that point home. Though I'll keep up on the HSUS's campaigns and make use of PETA's fliers and such, all my donations go to the smaller, grassroots groups.

Though I agree with most of what Steve Best wrote, I'm with Elaine - you don't necessary have to be an "animal person" to believe that they have inherent rights or should be treated with compassion. As a childfree woman, I'm not especially crazy about babies, but that doesn't mean I won't speak up when I think children's rights are being usurped by our government, or a child is mistreated by her caregiver. That sort of logic - that only "animal lovers" care about animal rights - feeds into the stereotype of the sentimental, hysterical, overemotional (female) animal activist.

The HSUS True Nature

You are correct! You are well informed and not alone! Wayne Pacelle is well known to only care about his future political career and not about the animals we care so much about. The Humane Society of the United States and Wayne Pacelle has been relentlessly fooling donators for years with his false prophet persona. It is truly a crime that HSUS and Wayne Pacelle can lead such a sinful campaign to destroy, not save, these precious animals. Less than four percent of HSUS donations ever make it to the homeless animals. Shame on Wayne Pacelle and the HSUS! You are not fooling us anymore!

Revoke HSUS Tax Exempt Status

Wayne Pacelle is nothing more than a modern day Adolf Hitler. He imposes his believes on Americans with such aggression and by any means necessary tactics one should be afraid of this man and the Humane Society of the United States. Their vegan America and domestic pet extinction agenda goes unquestioned by the US government. Is this what America has become? Letting a madman dictate to America what is right and wrong? All under a federal tax exempt status?

As animal loving Americans we can change this. Please visit http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=139029,00.html and request the IRS revoke HSUS tax exempt status immediately. No terrorist group should be allowed to enjoy tax exempt status as they attempt to destroy America.

Ryan

"Wayne Pacelle is nothing more than a modern day Adolf Hitler."

Godwin's Law!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

DIANE WOLCOTT

Please read this, it is important to get the truth out about the HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) and Peta (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals). Their agenda is not to help shelter dogs and cats, but to line their pockets with the donations from the general public (they are worth over $200 million). They are rich and powerful which allows them to further their agenda of eliminating our rights to own a personal pet. HSUS does not fund or operate any Humane Societies!

HSUS ideology is to end all animal use. Researcher and author Daniel T. Oliver writes: "the animal rights movement will continue to harm both people and animals as long as American fail to understand its actual agenda". To understand their agenda more read what the CEO and others are saying...
Wayne Pacelle, HSUS CEO, said "One Generation and Out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of Human Selective Breeding".
Wayne Pacelle, said when speaking on animal rights, "It's really about human behavior and less about the animals. Animals for the most part just need to be left alone."
Paul Shapiro, senior director of HSUS said, "nothing is more important than promoting veganism."
Wayne Pacelle has also said "We want Americans to eat fewer animals", "If we believe in evolution, then we believe that humans come from other animals and the differences between us and them are differences of degree and not kind." and "The entire animal rights movement in the United States reacted with unfettered glee at the Ban in England...We view this act of parliament as one of the most important actions in the history of the animal rights movement. This will energize our efforts to stop hunting with hounds."
Michael Markarian, Executive VP of HSUS says "...your everyday meat-eaters and cosmetics users: they are not vivisectors, they are not slaughterhouse operators, and they have basic feelings of compassion. But they are accustomed to eating, wearing and using animal products, and they need to be convinced to give them up. They can be won over-slowly but surely they are being won over-...".
HSUS is relentless in its efforts to introduce "puppy mill" legislation to regulate dog breeders. The name alone generates sympathy from the uninitiated. The bill is presented as if abusive situations are the norm rather that the exception thereby rationalizing the need for government to step in and set standards for breeding, care, housing, allowable numbers and sales for the entire dog breeding community, eventually regulating breeders out of existence.

Many activist groups such as PETA, HSUS and Farm Sanctuary have used falsehoods and scare tactics to push their hidden agendas of fundraising and systematically abolishing all us of animals including production agriculture, zoos, circuses and sporting events. These groups campaign for animal "rights," which is not synonymous with animal welfare, using half-truths or complete deception. -- Testimony of former Congressman Charles W. Stenholm to the House Committee of Agriculture, Subcommittee on Livestock, Dairy and Poultry, May 8, 2007.

The dog and cat lovers, breeders and exhibitors in every state are under seige.

Thank you for listening,

Diane W


References: LA Times, July 2008
National Student Animal Rights Conference, 2004
DVM Magazine, January 2008
Washington Post August 2004
London Times, December 2004
SAOVA

mary martin

Hi Diane,
Though I do agree about the large groups lining their coffers, there is much debate over what PETA and HSUS really want for animals given that HSUS isn't an animal rights organization (nor do they say they are) and PETA says it is but doesn't act like it much of the time.

More important for your comment, though, is that I am an animal rights advocate. I do not think we have a right to use animals or breed them or exhibit them. If you spent some time on this blog, you'd realize that I have two adopted ex-racing greyhounds and I look forward to the day when greyhound racing is a thing of the past. And greyhound breeding, as well.

My goal is for humans to stop breeding cows and chickens and every other animal we use for food, clothing or entertainment, including dogs and cats.

babble

"The dog and cat lovers, breeders and exhibitors in every state are under seige."

You're placing these three groups together as though they're equivalent. They aren't.

Beaelliott

And I would say that I find the term "production agriculture" vile. I don't want to support businesses that view sentient beings as "commodities". Not the dog in a pen or the pig in a cage... No siree.

babble

Animal ag often claims that it's got "animal welfare" in mind, but this claim is highly suspect; animal ag has *profit* in mind. Nothing more.

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