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September 06, 2008

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Kelev

It IS puzzling as to why Scully would accept the job of drafting/writing Palin's speech, in terms of animal welfare/protection/rights. His book, DOMINION, touched my soul, specifically in his personal "visits" to the gigantic (powerful) Agribusiness Animal Factories and Slaughter facilities in our nation - will be haunted by a number of his descriptions that take the reader into the despairing souls and hearts of the doomed animals. The ONLY potential, hopeful - against hope - for his writing the speech is that somehow, by his example, he can speak to Palin's conscious and soul, as she says, "I want to do the Right thing!" - to extend compassion to the most vulnerable among us, the creatures of our planet. (Sadly, she, Palin, probably hasn't EVEN heard of his book or his stance on our obligations as moral people (??) to animals.

Roger

Are all animal welfarists traitors? Is that the question being asked?

Scully is a welfarist - he certainly seems to use the terms 'dominion' and 'stewardship' interchangeably, and Steve Best points out the implication of his subtitle. Exploring Jim Mason's concept of dominionism, I suggested in my thesis that stewardship sounds an awful lot like animal welfarism.

So, is MS a traitor to animal welfare? I doubt it. Still does not answer the wider question about whether all animal welfarists are traitors to nonhuman animals.

btw, while looking at Scully information, I cam across this gem: http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/interrogatory120602.asp which contains the question: 'When people — conservatives — hear "animal rights" they often think of Peter Singer. Are you in part attempting to get the arguments away from the likes of Singer?'

Roger

Adam

I don't think Scully initially had any idea who the vice presidential candidate would be. In the reports I have read, he was contracted to write the speech before anyone was named. Being that Palin was a choice out of left field, he probably was expecting someone more moderate--I mean his whole speech appeals to the more moderate demographic, shying away from Palin's pro-life position and such. Whether or not he still would have written the speech if he knew that one of the most "anti-animal" Republicans would be chosen, i can't say. Still, I guess he could have chosen to not adapt the speech for Palin once she was chosen.

I think it's more complicated of an issue than Scully being a traitor or not. So many people from the "abolitionist side" of our movement seem to just be on the lookout for any "new welfarists" to attack, just as many vegans enjoy judging lacto-ovo vegetarians. I like Best's and Francione's work, but I think their rhetoric can be very obnoxious. Before we reduce Scully to the category "traitor," let's reserve judgment until his next words and move. In the end, what difference does it make if he is/is not a traitor anyway? What's done is done.

Mary Martin

Adam,
The Time Magazine article Bea directed us to a couple of days ago (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1838808,00.html) does confirm that Scully was brought on board before Palin. But once he knew, if it was important enough to him, he could have refused to continue rather than tailoring his speech to her, as the Time article says. Something could have occurred that we don't know about, and I'd be interested to know if he did indeed voice any kind of objection. Time says "don't be surprised, though, if the combination continues." I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd be disappointed.

Elaine Vigneault

I think you're right to suggest that "when it comes to the idea of dominion, Scully isn't a hypocrite at all. He believes in it and he writes about it, for himself and others." Scully believes in moderation, not abolition.

But I think Norm Phelps, quoted by Steven Best, is completely accurate when he wrote:
"the fact that Matthew Scully wrote her convention speech [...] should give us all pause about the notion that conservatives will ever be serious animal advocates. I used to think that AR [animal rights] was a non-political issue and that we should keep it that way in the interests of converting as many people as possible and having the greatest impact on society. I no longer think that. I now believe that the mindset that leads conservatives to pursue policies that are hostile to the well-being of most of humanity (everyone except themselves and those to whom they are close) almost invariably leads them to policies that are hostile to the well-being of most animals (everyone except those to whom they are personally close, such as their companion animals)."

Bea Elliott

I searched "Dominion" hoping to find some reference to Alaska and it's wolf gunning policies. MS never directly addressed this controversial topic. However, I did find this on page 100: "Sport hunters operate in a subculture, like pornographers, and are tolerated by 93-95 percent of folks who don't hunt for much the same reason. In conservatives, even the more religious conservatives, questions of animal welfare bring out the libertarian streak".

Given the words and opinions Scully has on "sports hunting" he's the one who needs to judge if he has betrayed his own values and beliefs. Fate handed him an opportunity to live up to his convictions. Tragically, in my eyes he has renounced them.

Bea Elliott

Some people just aren't letting the subject (or disappointment go) - guess I'm one of them... so is this journalist here:
http://www.sdcitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/animal_rights_and_wrongs/7282/

In Scully’s words, “Cruelty to animals is not simply unkind behavior, it is unjust behavior, and the prohibition against it is non-negotiable.” Does he actually believe that he can work to put this cruel woman in power and then talk her out of her cruelty? How is his writing her speech not “negotiating”?

“Little wrongs, when left unattended,” he once wrote, “can grow and spread to become grave wrongs.” True, but a little wrong can also grow and spread to become a grave wrong when a sell-out hypocrite helps lift the little wrong out of relative obscurity and pushes her toward a position of extreme power.

On a personal note here's my say:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0jxzo/banthisbook/

Mike

Elaine Vigneault's mindset (to try to officially connect veganism/animal rights with socialism and atheism) has made me very hesitant to support vegan groups.
I would never support one she is the head of.
I would never support a group that officially favors atheism, abortion rights, race-based affirmative action, slavery reparations,progressive taxation, banning of gun ownership, lowering the age of sexual consent, etc. just because the group favors animal rights.
I single her out since she is the only one so far to overtly say that a liberal agenda is inextricably linked with veganism. Though, I am sure she is not the only one who thinks this.
She can talk about how destructive my politics are to humanity, but that is because her definition of "destructive to humanity" is wrong.

Brandon Becker

Mike,

I don't know if you support nonhuman animal rights, but if you do, you should think about the interlocking connections between the oppression of humans and the oppression of other animals. We will never bring justice for other animals while we are still subjugating humans and vice versa.

An excellent book on this topic is "Animal Rights/Human Rights" by David Nibert: http://www.rowmanlittlefield.com/isbn/0742517764

Check out an interview with Nibert: http://www.abolitionist-online.com/interview-issue05_animal.rights.human.rights-david.nibert.shtml

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