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November 30, 2008

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Bea Elliott

Collier - the whole story is a mess from the beginning of the poisoned burger to the targeted victims, the "collateral damage" - an animal auction, then the coup de grâce... deer hunting. Definately a surreal nightmare of speciesism.

Reminds me of a meal the decadent Romans used to prepare for their feasts: a cooked phesant egg, inside a chicken, inside a goose, inside a pig, inside a cow... Hello vomitorium!

Since this was my first vegan "ThanksLiving" Day - I was not prepared for the media barrage (or the emotional connections) which resulted.

Poor turkeys - cousin to the poor brutalized chicken... I've heard it said that man mistreats birds so because of envy. They have wings... they can fly & are closest to angels and gods. Well, I don't know about all that - what I do know is they deserve their lives just as all the other creatures -with feathers, fur or scales do.

I found a copy of a Nov. 1937 Farmer's Progressive magazine - There was an article concerning "T" day and it said that it *may* be appropriate to serve "turkey" (but not essential (?) - So what went from that to the 260 million slaughtered birds now? Could it be the establishment of the United Turkey Federation - 10 years later? Betcha!

Anyway, the article closed with this lovely poem by Edna St. Vincent Millay -
Thanksgiving Dinner: http://sitebuilder.verizon.net/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://mysite.verizon.net/res0jxzo/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/tday.jpg&target=tlx_picev8p

Note not a mention of a single sacrificed bird... And all is well.

John Carbonaro

The U.S. Constitution recognizes life, liberty, and the pusuit of happiness, as long as individual pursuits do not infringe on these same rights granted to all. Yet, animals are not afforded these same rights by virtue of a very undemocratic, speciesist hierarchy. When human animals exploit non human animals such as the turkey, they might as well be putting the american bald eagle, symbol of freedom , in the holocaust oven.

Larry

FYI, it is not considered "murder" to kill an animal. Don't believe me? Ask any judge or cop in this country. I bet you kooks don't think animals can be murderers. If a lion kills a gazelle, did the lion commit murder? If a pit bull mauls an infant child to death, did the dog murder the child? Nope. Your double standard serves ONLY to make people look bad, and to make animals look good.

mary martin

Dear Larry,

In the unlikely event that you come back to this site, may I first just say "Welcome," but also say that I moderate comments and though calling people who care about the rights of other sentient beings "kooks" isn't the worst thing that can happen, it is quite rude. I ordinarily do not allow name-calling, and in the future comments from you, should they include rudeness and name-calling, shall not be published.

Next, may I direct you to the Oxford English Dictionary, which Angus Taylor, PhD, of the University of Victoria, pointed us to regarding this very issue: when is murder murder, earlier this year (http://www.animalperson.net/animal_person/2008/07/when-is-murder.html)? Taylor quotes the OED and says this:
_____
In the Oxford English Dictionary, the first three listed senses of "murder", considered as an act of killing, are:

(a) The deliberate and unlawful killing of a human being, esp. in a premeditated manner; (Law) criminal homicide with malice aforethought (occas. more fully wilful murder); an instance of this.

(b) Terrible slaughter, massacre, loss of life; an instance of this. Obs.

(c) The action of killing or causing destruction of life, regarded as wicked and morally reprehensible irrespective of its legality (e.g. in relation to war, death sentences passed down by tribunals, and other socially sanctioned acts of killing); an instance of this.

The third is relevant for our purposes: Murder is morally reprehensible killing, regardless of its legality.
____

Larry, it is not morally reprehensible for a lion to kill a gazelle. Lions are carnivores and they need to eat gazelles in order to survive. In addition, they do not farm them, drug them, control their reproduction, maim them and torture them. They kill them as efficiently and effectively as they can, and then they tear into them with their teeth and eat their flesh raw. Humans, on the other hand, are not equipped to do such things as kill gazelles with our bare hands and teeth, and then eat them raw. We, Larry, are not carnivores. We do not need to eat the flesh of another in order to survive.

It is morally reprehensible to kill another when you do not need to. That's what makes it murder.

Good day, sir.

Bea Elliott

Mary... on farmed, controlled, murdered animals... since it's done so systematically - is it not "genocide"? Mass killing of a particular race or nation... Genocide against the Animal Nation. (?)...

And here I have some puzzles: "cide" is "to kill". Homocide, suicide, familicide, infantcide, pest/insecticide etc... Question is: where do non-human animals fit?

We (euthanize) "exterminate" billions of "unwanted pets" - Yet it's not "catcide" or "dogcide". I think that's peculiar.

And finally: we don't have "birdcide" or "pigcide" either... but what of "primate" cide? Since man is primate too (?) Where does the mass killing of gorillas and apes fit within the meaning of "genocide"?
Just curious - if there's a word for it at all? the "genocide" against non-human animals (?)

And Larry, on the note of "trying to make animals look good" - I don't know if we can ever do that... they just are what they are: not good or bad, kind or evil, right or wrong. Still, culture attempts to separate and endow (certain) qualities to animals. We make up stories about "wise" owls, "dirty" pigs, "sly" foxes and even "flying reindeer". In the end it has very little to do with the animals at all - It's all about us.

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