« 1001 Journals-Rescue Dogs | Main | On Art »

July 26, 2009

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Elaine Vigneault

I like the sarcasm, but it's so abnormal for this blog that it's jarring.

Tricia glynn

Mary,
Is this a joke? Am I missing something here? I must admit I am a bit worried that people tuning in for the first time might think you are the author of this insanity. Did this person really watch Earthlings and come up with this version of doing her/his part for the animals and planet.

Just got home from the dog park and decided to check out your blog for the day since I always come back from the park boggled by the love folk have for their dogs and not a clue of animal suffering that is ubiquitous. A man was there who just rescued 2 elderly Greyhounds who had been in over 200 races. They had incredible demeanor's and were both covered in scars. When I told him I rescue animals such as pigs, chickens, etc. who were on their way to slaughter and get them to sanctuaries he gave me this blank look, yet he rescued 2 dogs and he clearly loved them, but couldn't wrap his mind around the suffering of other animals. VBM's is sacrilegious!

Paxil

If Darfur received as much attention as Earthlings maybe innocent and defenseless humans would be spared. Now that I have seen the promo for Earthlings, I will appropriately pop a Paxil. This site is beginning to have that effect on me.

Morganna

You had me going for a minute. Love the satire, thanks for the backstory. It was nice to have confirmation of my instincts, that it was satirical.

Kristen

It's sad that some people are actually like this...

Angus

A modest proposal: It would be nice to see a satirical "Vegan Between Meals" website. Or how about doing a "Vegan Between Meals" YouTube rant, Mary? It could be a big hit. (Your fans would also get to see and hear you.)

And speaking of modest proposals, everyone should keep an eye out for the novel Animals, by Don LePan, which is due out in September. I've read it in manuscript form and it's powerful.
http://www.vehiculepress.com/cgi-bin/dbman2/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&view_records=View%2BRecords&ISBN=978-155065-257-4

catherine turley

if you're not a great writer, you risk being offensive. enough said?

kelly g.

@ Catherine - If you don't lurk on a blog before commenting, you risk coming off like a troll. Enough said?

Christopher

I agree with Angus about Mary being on Youtube.

I think a Rocket Boom (rocketboom.com)-ish show about veganism/animal rights.

I like Rocket Boom's layout a lot because you can watch the show and see all the relevant source-links right below.

Tricia glynn

Mary,

When I first read this I didn't see the back story - Was that posted after I wrote?
I would have understood the satire (sarcasm) had I seen the back story. I truly thought there was someone out there who was serious about being vegan between meals. Sorry for taking it the wrong way.

Porphyry

I LOL’ed!

Bitttman is actually taking one of the better approaches to going vegan even though he claims going vegan is not his intention. He doesn’t strongly advocate for humane meat, dairy and eggs since he thinks it’s elitist.

“The positive aspect of this particular speech is that it's not a commercial for happy meat. Bittman's message isn't to stop buying animal products from factory farms and buy only from "free range" or family farms. His message is to cut down drastically on your meat intake (he also says animal products once or twice).”
-- Mary Martin - On Why I'm Still Wary of Mark Bittman
http://www.animalperson.net/animal_person/2008/05/when-angus-dire.html

His vegan before six strategy parallels Gary Francione’s suggestion to adopt veganism by starting with one or two vegan meals a day and ignoring humane animal products options entirely.

On one hand, it’s great that a person like Bittman (a foodie) got hip to the idea of the environmental problems with industrial meat and fish and is spreading the word. That’s a good thing; non-vegans will listen to him because for some reason whenever a vegetarian states these facts, they’re written off as crackpots no matter how much evidence is brought to the table.

On the other hand, he keeps dismissing veganism outright and ends up saying stupid things (vegan plus) and recently Tara Parker-Pope (the NYTimes Well Blog Columnist) perpetuated this stupidity by stating that he is “mostly vegan.” Mark Bittman is not “mostly vegan” or “vegan plus,” he’s not even “nearly vegetarian” or “somewhat pescatarian.” I wouldn’t even consider him a flexitarian or semi-vegetarian; while the definitions are nebulous it seems like they imply eating meat every once and a while, weekly or monthly, certainly not daily.

While it’s flattering to veganism that so many non-vegans are trying to co-opt the term (virtually vegan, lactovegan) and write vegetarian and vegan cookbooks (The Vegan Cook's Bible) when they are not vegan or vegetarian, the problem is that Bittman waves aside vegetarian ethics outright and adds (more) confusion to what vegan means.

He recently made vegan nutrition seem difficult because he couldn’t seem to “get enough protein” (seriously?!) even though he’s not vegan and eats whatever he wants for dinner on a daily basis, and it’s usually “indulgent,” using his own word. Mary, you’re a runner and you’re a vegan -- the kind that actually doesn’t eat animal products at all. I’m not sure what your weekly mileage is, but do you have problems finishing a four mile run?

“But once my weekly mileage surged past 25 miles a week, I was tired much of the time. Not only that, I’d often run out of energy halfway through even four-mile runs.”

“We met, she [Dr. Madelyn Fernstrom] heard me out, then immediately declared my diet to be on the “low end” protein-wise – which, she said, “would certainly cause fatigue,” especially since I eat mostly vegetables and don’t typically consume “complete” proteins (code-word for animal products).”
-- Mark Bittman - Running Low on Protein
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/running-low-on-protein/

I don’t want to be the voice to seem like I’m contradicting a “Ph.D. in psychology, epidemiology and surgery” and I’m not one to tell other people about their bodily experience and how they feel, but It would have taken Bittman an afternoon of research on the Internet to know that there are plenty of 24/7-vegan athletes, especially runners, thriving on vegan diets and they are not necessarily too concerned about “concentrated protein.” There are online forums of both lean and buff vegan athletes communicating with each other and working out the details without the assistance of a Ph.D consultation.

Bittman wrote a book on vegetarian cooking so I don’t understand why he wouldn’t do some rudimentary research on vegetarian nutrition. Once aware of the “how,” it would benefit him to do some reasonable research on vegetarian philosophy and history so that he could better understand the “why.” I get the feeling he’s set on not being vegetarian so he won’t bother reading anything about it outside of environmentalism, health, and recipes. He seems to concede that vegetarians may be right about the health and environmental outcomes of meat culture, why is it so seemingly so easy for him to pooh-pooh the ethics?

Perhaps it’s for the best. He’s a food writer and it would be difficult for him to do make his living, as it currently is, as a full-fledged vegan. (Okay, John Robbins gave up his dairy fortunes, but it’s not everyone that’s strong enough to give up their livelihood and identity over unpopular politics.) If Bittman wasn’t a food guy, he may have gone vegan already. Perhaps he’s avoiding it just to retain his audience. It may be a good strategy since if he goes vegan he will become invisible to a large audience. For now, he at least can influence people to really consider eating a lot less meat.

When discussion of Bittman comes up, he is juxtaposed against writers like Michael Pollan and Babara Kingslover who are lumped into a more pro-meat camp. Yes, Pollan speaks well of eating more plants, but somehow the audience is far more interested in humane pastured meat and riling against Big Ag than anything else. Instead of eating off the farm for a year or pig hunting, Bittman makes matters tangible for more people. He suggests eating less meat in a very approachable way, and doesn’t rest hopes on grass-fed beef, free range eggs, idealistic animal-farm models or for legislation to solve all the ills of animal agriculture. He puts the initial responsibility on the individual and has the personal benefits of 35 pound weight loss and improved blood work numbers to entice his audience. (I’m not a huge fan of the vegan health and weightless pitch, but let’s face it, it does get non-vegans past the threshold.)

“So does Food Matters have added value? In a word: yes. Bittman provides a common voice to a movement that is totally out of touch with reality.”
-- The Arugula Files - Vegan Until Six pm? A Look at Food Matters by Mark Bittman
http://arugulafiles.typepad.com/the_arugula_files/2009/03/vegan-until-six-pm.html

“With that sentiment, she [Susanne Freidberg] joins the ranks of food writers like Mark Bittman, who has called locavores "elitist," splitting with other high-profile thinkers like Michael Pollan on this topic. Bittman calls for cutting way back on meat as the most effective way to help the environment and heal our injured food system (sorry, Catherine Friend!).”
-- Kate Munning - The Chicken and the Egg: Slouching Toward Washington
http://www.bookslut.com/features/2009_07_014750.php

He does deserve criticism from vegans, but I offer that it should be gentle criticism, give him the benefit of doubt that perhaps he’s working through the issues of animal ethics in his own mind and time but keeping up general non-vegan appearances out of necessity. I realize that’s a very generous allowance considering that he parallels industrial meat production with a nuclear bomb and writes competently about the grim situation with the world fisheries. Even if he doesn’t buy into vegan ethics, his own environmental associations with meat production would seem to mandate a fulltime plant-based diet. Yes, environmentalism is a matter of degree, and sure, Bittman was speaking somewhat metaphorically, but how can he sometimes set off a nuclear explosion? I don’t think that even Mary has ever stated a case for veganism as strongly.

“I'm not a vegetarian -- this is the old Nixon line, right? But I still think that this may be this year's version of this.
(Image of atomic explosion)
Now that is only a little bit hyperbolic. And why do I say it? Because only once before has the fate of individual people and the fate of all of humanity been so intertwined. There was the bomb, and there's now.”

“But lists like this become kind of numbing, so let me just say this, if you're a progressive, if you're driving a Prius, or you're shopping green, or you're looking for organic, you should probably be a semi-vegetarian.”
-- Mark Bittman
http://www.ted.com/talks/mark_bittman_on_what_s_wrong_with_what_we_eat.html

Perhaps a vegan before six website should exist, but not a satirical one. Re-co-opt the term (if there is such a term). The intermittent vegan meal concept could be laid out, bolstered with information, extending to all facets of veganism, with even a support forum set up, but with the clear goal of promoting and ultimately establishing a strategy for people to become vegan.

Maybe “meat meals five days per month” could get worked in as well? It seems like Ezra Klien began on a “vegetarian before six” plan.

“I've not had the willpower to eliminate bacon from my life entirely, and so I eliminated it from breakfast and lunch, and when that grew easier, pulled back further to allow myself five meat-based meals a month.”
-- Ezra Klein - The Meat of the Problem
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/28/AR2009072800390.html

It's not veganism, but I do wonder how many vegans began on this reduction path.

mary

Hey Porphyry!
If I thought Bittman was using VB6 as a way of going vegan, I'd be all for it. And if I thought he cared about the exploitation of sentient nonhumans and that that principle was a driver of his behavior, I might be a fan.

If I were exhausted after running four miles I'd be worried. I have more energy than most people I know, at least until 8:30 pm, when I quickly begin my descent into unconsciousness.

I think that the major objection is that "semi" or "mostly" or whatever word you put next to "vegan" makes it a bit of an oxymoron, and Vegan Between Meals was really written to highlight that. Plus, he's referring only to diet, which ignores the principle of avoiding harm in other areas (hence my apparently poorly-written mention of issues other than food).

Louche

"I oppose the eating of animals. Except when I'm hungry."
"I'm vegan. Except when I eat animals."
"All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
My cousin told me, "I'm vegan in my head." She said she "secretly wants to be move to the countryside and be vegan." (She lives in Brooklyn, and she's in her 30s.) She also said she's vegetarian when she's in the mood, and her moods will last for several months. Her sister told me she likes to eat meat when she's with the family. When I saw her she was devouring a chicken sandwich. I also got her mom to buy soy milk for me, so we were drinking glasses of soy milk. I told my cousin I normally don't drink soy milk in a glass, but in my cereal. Her response? "Oh, I only drink soy milk by itself. If I'm having cereal, I have to have real milk."

So much for being vegan in her head.

Louche

I asked The Onion to write an article on VBM and sent them the link to your blog. <3

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

My Photo

Google Search

  • only search Animal Person

My Other Accounts

Facebook Twitter

Twitter Updates

    follow me on Twitter