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July 14, 2009

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Kristen

But if everyone said I'm just one person I can't change the world and therefore never does anything about it, then of course it would never change - but one person changing might eventually equal two (your spouse or friend) which might equal four (their coworkers or parents), etc. etc. So I say - continue to be responsible, vote with your money, you will eventually influence others to do the same. Knowledge is power the more that people know the more they are willing to change what they don't like. There is a reason why so many companies are "going green" because money talks. So I will continue to purchase green products, recycle, etc. because it is the responsible thing to do, even if my actions don't end up saving the world, at least I tried.

Ps. This is the same argument that people use about not going vegan – “why bother the entire world isn’t going to go vegan so why should I?” – but guess what there are probably twice as many vegans now then there were 10 years ago because people ignored that statement and continued to do the right thing – and while the world may never go completely vegan – the more that do the more lives we end up saving.

mary

Kristen,
Just to be clear, I do the right thing because it's the right thing, and that's not going to stop. Just because most people aren't going vegan anytime soon doesn't faze me. However, what I question is the notion that my personal habits will create a political shift, rather than simply a shift in the type of products available for consumption.

Ian Smith

Kristen - Jensen isn't saying that one person can't make a difference, he is just saying that lifestyle changes and consumer decisions are not the most effective way for a person to make a difference...furthermore if that is all one is doing then he/she is fooling themselves as to the significant of their decisions.

I think Jenen's point is an important one...but at the same time taking the point too far allows one to make excuses for all sorts of behavior (for example, Jensen eats animals).

Finally, Mary, many of the activities that you engage in--blogging, reading, writing, volunteering--seems to be in accordance with what Jensen might advise. Education, community building, etc seem to be highly endorsed by Jensen.

Brandon Becker

Love it. Thanks for posting this!

In regards to the exploitation of other animals, some advocates make it seem like consumer demand is just there - that animal-oppressing corporations do nothing but just meet this demand. Individualism can blind one from seeing the structural factors at work. These corporations aggressively market their products (flesh, cow milk, eggs, furred-animal pelts, cow skin, sheep hair, etc), lobby the government for handouts and deregulation, and work with the USDA to maximize profits. Creating, sustaining, and increasing demand are fundamental parts of running a capitalist corporation. These corporations are not amoral, they are immoral.

Mike Grieco

I once read: "If you want to change the world, change yourself."

Let's look at the creatures we care for. Aren't they better off because of compassion? Because of our decisions? Of course they are.

Time will tell if humans can continue to abuse our obligation to this planet...time will definitely show how we chose to live.

Live and let live.


Brandon Becker

Changing ourselves is the starting point. After becoming vegan (a moral obligation), we should get active to encourage others to make this change. We should unequivocally demand an end to speciesist explotation and advocate basic rights to life and liberty for all sentient beings. We must be the change AND work for social and political change.

Kris Sulzberger

Wow. Mary Martin's summary and response to the article by Derrick Jensen is powerful. Like one commenter said, I try to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do, and regardless of the political impact my actions may or may have, I'll continue to do the right thing. I don't think Martin is advising us to stop what we're doing because it's politically ineffectual, but rather to do *more*. And I would love to do more, to be more of an activist to help change the world. My personality does not lend itself to leaving my job (not economically feasible for me) and picketing corporate icons of environmental destruction. Personally, I don't see how getting arrested for a cause will cause political change...it would only cause me stress. I can figure out who my representatives are and write them, of course (although from the generic replies I've seen to constituent letters in the past, I highly doubt that does much good). But what else can I do to evoke political change? I'm a willing soul, but I need suggestions that work for the average, blue-collar Jill. Mary? Commenters?

Brandon Becker

Kris, check out this article by David Cantor:

"Get Political for Animals: What Does That Mean?"
http://www.animalsvoice.com/edits/editorial/essays/misc/get_political1.html

All Means Justifiable

People will listen to him (Jensen) much more if he will "prove" he's on their side.

I very much agree with Ian on this:
"I think Jenen's point is an important one...but at the same time taking the point too far allows one to make excuses for all sorts of behavior (for example, Jensen eats animals)."

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