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	<title>Comments on: The Animals We Use</title>
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	<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/</link>
	<description>Deconstructing our relationship with other animals since 2006.</description>
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		<title>By: peace</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10776</link>
		<dc:creator>peace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 09:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;I like your brochure and mostly agree with it, but I disagree with the inclusion of Nathan Winograd&#039;s argument that there is no pet overpopulation. The argument that pet overpopulation doesn&#039;t exist was originally advanced by animal industry and breeder groups like the National Animal Interest Alliance. Winograd has since become a hero to breeders because he lets them off the hook. The Center for Consumer Freedom champions him. He himself also has some shady connections that indicate he is obviously NOT an animal rights person. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/12/nathan-winograd-and-animal-testers.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/12/nathan-winograd-and-animal-testers.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/08/nathan-winograds-web-of-ties-to.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/08/nathan-winograds-web-of-ties-to.html&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/09/nathan-winograd-and-center-for-consumer.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/09/nathan-winograd-and-center-for-consumer.html&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Any tour of a shelter indicates that there obviously IS still a serious problem with the overpopulation of unwanted cats. Entire litters of kittens are surrendered at a time. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your brochure and mostly agree with it, but I disagree with the inclusion of Nathan Winograd&#39;s argument that there is no pet overpopulation. The argument that pet overpopulation doesn&#39;t exist was originally advanced by animal industry and breeder groups like the National Animal Interest Alliance. Winograd has since become a hero to breeders because he lets them off the hook. The Center for Consumer Freedom champions him. He himself also has some shady connections that indicate he is obviously NOT an animal rights person. <br />
<a href="http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/12/nathan-winograd-and-animal-testers.html" rel="nofollow">http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/12/nathan-winograd-and-animal-testers.html</a><br />
<a href="http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/08/nathan-winograds-web-of-ties-to.html" rel="nofollow">http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/08/nathan-winograds-web-of-ties-to.html</a> <br />
<a href="http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/09/nathan-winograd-and-center-for-consumer.html" rel="nofollow">http://friendsofbestfriends.blogspot.com/2010/09/nathan-winograd-and-center-for-consumer.html</a> </p>
<p>Any tour of a shelter indicates that there obviously IS still a serious problem with the overpopulation of unwanted cats. Entire litters of kittens are surrendered at a time. </p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10775</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jul 2011 09:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Thanks for sharing. Education is important. People can&#039;t shift there ways if they don&#039;t have the knowledge to make educated decisions. Also, they can&#039;t change what they don&#039;t acknowledge.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing. Education is important. People can&#39;t shift there ways if they don&#39;t have the knowledge to make educated decisions. Also, they can&#39;t change what they don&#39;t acknowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: veganimal</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10774</link>
		<dc:creator>veganimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 15:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the tips:) The LOVE pamphlet looks interesting. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the tips:) The LOVE pamphlet looks interesting. </p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10773</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;veganimal, I agree that the BVA pamphlet isn&#039;t perfect - it&#039;s true that dog/cat comparison is primarily a pyschological one, as breeding animals for &quot;pets&quot; is still exploitation (see, from Ida Hammer: &lt;a href=&quot;http://veganideal.org/content/status-pets).&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://veganideal.org/content/status-pets).&lt;/a&gt; I&#039;ve made suggestions to the BVA last year and in 2009, but it seems they are weddded to promoting Francione&#039;s theory, which has problems, too: &lt;a href=&quot;http://veganideal.org/content/animal-rights-and-humane-treatment-principle&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://veganideal.org/content/animal-rights-and-humane-treatment-principle&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Have you seen LOVE&#039;s &quot;You Can Help Stop This&quot; pamphlet?: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.loveallbeings.org/files/Pamphlets/LOVE-Veganism-Pamphlet.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.loveallbeings.org/files/Pamphlets/LOVE-Veganism-Pamphlet.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It documents speciesist oppression while promoting veganism, anti-speciesism, and liberation. Also see the video LOVE created at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youcanhelpstopthis.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youcanhelpstopthis.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just as with Mary&#039;s pamphlet, you have to print the LOVE pamphlet at home.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For those who need literature in large quantities and don&#039;t have the money to print materials, I recommend:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- &quot;Why Vegan?&quot; (order from Vegan Outreach): &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/WhyVegan.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/WhyVegan.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- &quot;Vegan Starter Kit&quot; (order from In Defense of Animals): &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldgoveganweek.com/docs/vegan_starter_kit_2007.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.worldgoveganweek.com/docs/vegan_starter_kit_2007.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Both cover factory &quot;farms&quot; and slaughterhouses, but considering that 98% (or more) animals exploited for food go through industrial systems, what&#039;s wrong with this focus? You can also use &quot;Don&#039;t Buy The Myth&quot; pamphlets from HumaneMyth.org along with any of these.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>veganimal, I agree that the BVA pamphlet isn&#39;t perfect &#8211; it&#39;s true that dog/cat comparison is primarily a pyschological one, as breeding animals for &quot;pets&quot; is still exploitation (see, from Ida Hammer: <a href="http://veganideal.org/content/status-pets)." rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://veganideal.org/content/status-pets" rel="nofollow">http://veganideal.org/content/status-pets</a>). I&#39;ve made suggestions to the BVA last year and in 2009, but it seems they are weddded to promoting Francione&#39;s theory, which has problems, too: <a href="http://veganideal.org/content/animal-rights-and-humane-treatment-principle" rel="nofollow">http://veganideal.org/content/animal-rights-and-humane-treatment-principle</a> </p>
<p>Have you seen LOVE&#39;s &quot;You Can Help Stop This&quot; pamphlet?: <a href="http://www.loveallbeings.org/files/Pamphlets/LOVE-Veganism-Pamphlet.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.loveallbeings.org/files/Pamphlets/LOVE-Veganism-Pamphlet.pdf</a></p>
<p>It documents speciesist oppression while promoting veganism, anti-speciesism, and liberation. Also see the video LOVE created at <a href="http://www.youcanhelpstopthis.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.youcanhelpstopthis.com/</a></p>
<p>Just as with Mary&#39;s pamphlet, you have to print the LOVE pamphlet at home.</p>
<p>For those who need literature in large quantities and don&#39;t have the money to print materials, I recommend:</p>
<p>- &quot;Why Vegan?&quot; (order from Vegan Outreach): <a href="http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/WhyVegan.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/WhyVegan.pdf</a></p>
<p>- &quot;Vegan Starter Kit&quot; (order from In Defense of Animals): <a href="http://www.worldgoveganweek.com/docs/vegan_starter_kit_2007.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldgoveganweek.com/docs/vegan_starter_kit_2007.pdf</a></p>
<p>Both cover factory &quot;farms&quot; and slaughterhouses, but considering that 98% (or more) animals exploited for food go through industrial systems, what&#39;s wrong with this focus? You can also use &quot;Don&#39;t Buy The Myth&quot; pamphlets from HumaneMyth.org along with any of these.</p>
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		<title>By: Wchanley</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10772</link>
		<dc:creator>Wchanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;@veganimal: &quot;The animal movement is partly to blaim for that since the message they give in their outreach ofte portrait animals as sentient biomass as opposed to inviolable subjects.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps (no particular disagreement from me if your target here are moneyed organizations with a need to appeal to a non-vegan donor base) but essentially misses the point. Mary Martin isn&#039;t PETA or HSUS or the animal movement in general. She&#039;s asking for comment on a specific piece of writing. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@veganimal: &quot;The animal movement is partly to blaim for that since the message they give in their outreach ofte portrait animals as sentient biomass as opposed to inviolable subjects.&quot;</p>
<p>Perhaps (no particular disagreement from me if your target here are moneyed organizations with a need to appeal to a non-vegan donor base) but essentially misses the point. Mary Martin isn&#39;t PETA or HSUS or the animal movement in general. She&#39;s asking for comment on a specific piece of writing. </p>
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		<title>By: Beaelliott</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10771</link>
		<dc:creator>Beaelliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 09:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Thanks Mary for creating this new and improved version of the original pamphlet.  I like the series of questions you put to the reader... It helps when people must answer specific questions which we know inevitably will invalidate their reasons for using animals.  And even if they don&#039;t answer those questions there and then - You&#039;ve planted the very important seeds from which good thoughts/clear thinking will grow.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And as always thank you for helping guide me on my journey... And for all you do for the animal people. &lt;3&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mary for creating this new and improved version of the original pamphlet.  I like the series of questions you put to the reader&#8230; It helps when people must answer specific questions which we know inevitably will invalidate their reasons for using animals.  And even if they don&#39;t answer those questions there and then &#8211; You&#39;ve planted the very important seeds from which good thoughts/clear thinking will grow.</p>
<p>And as always thank you for helping guide me on my journey&#8230; And for all you do for the animal people. &lt;3</p>
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		<title>By: veganimal</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10770</link>
		<dc:creator>veganimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;&quot;The idea that nonhumans are anything more than automatons with a capacity for pain sensation tends to be too large a leap for folks to take&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The animal movement is partly to blaim for that since the message they give in their outreach ofte portrait animals as sentient biomass as opposed to inviolable subjects.&lt;/p&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;The idea that nonhumans are anything more than automatons with a capacity for pain sensation tends to be too large a leap for folks to take&quot;</p>
<p>The animal movement is partly to blaim for that since the message they give in their outreach ofte portrait animals as sentient biomass as opposed to inviolable subjects.</p>
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		<title>By: veganimal</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10769</link>
		<dc:creator>veganimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;The Boston pamphlet - It&#039;s good, but I&#039; not overly enthusiastic about it. It reminds me of brochures I&#039;ve seen before from Vegan Outreach or Vegan Society, but with twists to fit Francione&#039;s abolitionist approach. The frontpage is nice, but the title seems a bit too obvious. I don&#039;t disagree with it, but I think it&#039;s a turn-off for many people, that just think &quot;oh, another vegan propaganda thing&quot;, and might feel slightly offended because it implisit says that they don&#039;t show respect.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The definition of veganism that reduce it to consumerism, to avoidance of animal ingredients gets a bit to narrow. And I&#039;ve never been a big fan of the cat/dog analog - that it&#039;s no morally relevant difference between them the one that&#039;s sent for slaughter - so what? I understand that one want to appeal to people affection for pets, but it&#039;s not like pets are treated with genuine respect either, their still seen as subhuman. And we should not idealize petkeeping.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The focus on conditions of factory farming in US makes it not that fit for us living in the world outside.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Boston pamphlet &#8211; It&#39;s good, but I&#39; not overly enthusiastic about it. It reminds me of brochures I&#39;ve seen before from Vegan Outreach or Vegan Society, but with twists to fit Francione&#39;s abolitionist approach. The frontpage is nice, but the title seems a bit too obvious. I don&#39;t disagree with it, but I think it&#39;s a turn-off for many people, that just think &quot;oh, another vegan propaganda thing&quot;, and might feel slightly offended because it implisit says that they don&#39;t show respect.</p>
<p>The definition of veganism that reduce it to consumerism, to avoidance of animal ingredients gets a bit to narrow. And I&#39;ve never been a big fan of the cat/dog analog &#8211; that it&#39;s no morally relevant difference between them the one that&#39;s sent for slaughter &#8211; so what? I understand that one want to appeal to people affection for pets, but it&#39;s not like pets are treated with genuine respect either, their still seen as subhuman. And we should not idealize petkeeping.  </p>
<p>The focus on conditions of factory farming in US makes it not that fit for us living in the world outside.</p>
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		<title>By: Wchanley</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10768</link>
		<dc:creator>Wchanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Hey Mary, everyone: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A couple of things. While I don&#039;t disagree with the sentiment (or the claim as it&#039;s made), it&#039;ll be tough to sell the notion that nonhumans possess morals or culture when I use this at a table. It&#039;s a small niggle, but inevitably goes to the heart of *why* humans disconnect themselves from nonhuman sentience in the first place. I suppose it&#039;s a bit of a no-win argument, really; when I&#039;ve tabled with other handouts in the past, inevitably there&#039;s at least one (usually more) person who says they only ever eat &quot;humanely slaughtered&quot; animals who were &quot;humanely raised.&quot; Relying on suffering alone isn&#039;t enough, but suffering is *all* folks tend to pay attention to. The idea that nonhumans are anything more than automatons with a capacity for pain sensation tends to be too large a leap for folks to take, at least within the context of doing a table and handing them something to read. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On a related note, I wonder if it&#039;s worth noting some specifics around the myths of humane marketing? We&#039;re really (REALLY) fond of telling ourselves that oodles of the animals we use have been treated &quot;humanely&quot; (which we&#039;re all aware is largely marketing, and largely a myth, but a darned persistent one) thereby rendering use a moot question. &lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Mary, everyone: </p>
<p>A couple of things. While I don&#39;t disagree with the sentiment (or the claim as it&#39;s made), it&#39;ll be tough to sell the notion that nonhumans possess morals or culture when I use this at a table. It&#39;s a small niggle, but inevitably goes to the heart of *why* humans disconnect themselves from nonhuman sentience in the first place. I suppose it&#39;s a bit of a no-win argument, really; when I&#39;ve tabled with other handouts in the past, inevitably there&#39;s at least one (usually more) person who says they only ever eat &quot;humanely slaughtered&quot; animals who were &quot;humanely raised.&quot; Relying on suffering alone isn&#39;t enough, but suffering is *all* folks tend to pay attention to. The idea that nonhumans are anything more than automatons with a capacity for pain sensation tends to be too large a leap for folks to take, at least within the context of doing a table and handing them something to read. </p>
<p>On a related note, I wonder if it&#39;s worth noting some specifics around the myths of humane marketing? We&#39;re really (REALLY) fond of telling ourselves that oodles of the animals we use have been treated &quot;humanely&quot; (which we&#39;re all aware is largely marketing, and largely a myth, but a darned persistent one) thereby rendering use a moot question. </p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Becker</title>
		<link>http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10767</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 19:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.animalperson.net/the-animals-we-use/#comment-10767</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;p&gt;Have you seen the &quot;Respecting Animals...&quot; pamphlet from Boston Vegan Association: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.veganpamphlet.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.veganpamphlet.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It makes a logical argument for veganism and abolition while exposing the awful reality of factory &quot;farms&quot; and slaughterhouses. The photos included focus on the exploited individuals - juxtaposing those suffering as they are confined and slaughtered with those happy when they are rescued and living on a sanctuary.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you seen the &quot;Respecting Animals&#8230;&quot; pamphlet from Boston Vegan Association: <a href="http://www.veganpamphlet.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.veganpamphlet.com/</a></p>
<p>It makes a logical argument for veganism and abolition while exposing the awful reality of factory &quot;farms&quot; and slaughterhouses. The photos included focus on the exploited individuals &#8211; juxtaposing those suffering as they are confined and slaughtered with those happy when they are rescued and living on a sanctuary.</p>
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